Arno in Austria complains about Notes (updated)

November 11 2005

A blogger named Arno rants about how he doesn't like the usability of Lotus Notes:

So when talking about Lotus Notes (the client only, as this is all I know about), I will not lose my temper. I will not raise my voice. I will quietly continue voting on the "Software Tools of Dirt"-Page (in German) each time it crashes, and launch my little KillNotes.exe so I can restart it without having to reboot. I will let others do the cursing and complaining (Interface Hall of Shame or I hate Notes come to my mind), and will only talk about some experiences I went through just the last couple of days.
Arno, just an FYI, your screen shots are from Notes R5, which shipped in 1999.  Update: Alan Lepofsky notes that the screen shot actually looks like Notes R4.5, which shipped in December, 1996.  See this page on developerWorks for what appears to be confirmation.

I would happily offer to have a demonstration of Notes 7, which shipped two months ago, set up for you, but your blog does not allow comments and does not have any contact information.  Anyone know Arno?

Ed Brill | Highland Park, IL USA Category:  Blogging  Add/View Comments [29]

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  1. 1  Ben Poole http://www.benpoole.com | 11/11/2005 3:55:39 PM

    It never ceases to amaze me how much energy people devote to pissing and moaning about applications on the interweb.

    Pieces of software!

    Now, imagine how cool things would be if people like thepef (Mr "I Hate Notes"), the dweebs at iArchitects and this new kid on the block all devoted their time and energy to something positive? And no, thepef's "creative" site doesn't count: for someone who has an awful lot of bile stored up for Notes' UI, this is one fugly website:

    { Link }

  1. 2  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 11/11/2005 4:01:15 PM

    FWIW, the iArchitects guys who built the "hall of shame" have been out of business for years. Kind of ironic. The links now point to mirrors of a dead site.

  1. 3  Duffbert http://www.twduff.com | 11/11/2005 4:16:35 PM

    When someone posts a comment on a Blogspot blog, it's very common to have it set to send you an email. Happens REAL quick, too. If you leave a comment on his site asking for more information or to start a dialogue, it will probably get to him. Whether he responds or not is a different story...

  1. 4  Volker Weber http://vowe.net | 11/11/2005 4:17:03 PM

    Ben, you can go to any of my (online) articles on heise.de (through { Link } ) which mention Lotus, then click on Kommentare (Comments) and you will find quite a lot of people making money, errr, wasting time with "Notes sucks" comments.

  1. 5  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 11/11/2005 4:31:41 PM

    @3 he/she sees to have disabled comments.

  1. 6  Chris Reckling http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?blog=416 | 11/11/2005 4:43:14 PM

    @1 - WOW! What's that they say about glass houses? :)

    Chris

  1. 7  ThePef http://www.ideasling.com | 11/11/2005 8:37:59 PM

    Ouch! That hurts. I still contend that the Notes GUI is bloated and in serious need of cleanup. The problem is that there hasnt been a good cleanup in years. Notes is not the only program to go long in the tooth. The problem is that the GUI is not customizable enough, to hide features that no one in their right mind would use. All I ask is that someone with serious UI design experience go through the client and clean it up. Then run it through proper UAT. And no, I am not a UI expert, but I am a day in and day out user of Notes, that has also been subject to AOL mail, several POP3/IMAP clients and Outlook. I hate to say it, but Notes is worse than AOL Hell. Just my personal opinion. I suggest you and you Notes pals get off your high horse and make the thing digestable.

  1. 8  ThePef http://www.ideasling.com | 11/11/2005 8:45:35 PM

    Oh, thanks for the hits. Any hit is a good hit, keep up the good work.

  1. 9  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 11/11/2005 10:30:23 PM

    @7 - "All I ask is that someone with serious UI design experience go through the client and clean it up." Take a look at this: With the unveiling of the next release of Lotus Notes, code-named “Hannover,” IBM articulates roadmap, demonstrates commitment

    { Link }

  1. 10  Darryl Miles  | 11/11/2005 11:51:02 PM

    Arno's comments are a little harsh, but probably borne out of frustration more than anything else. Certainly Hannover will be long in coming. Just make sure Notes 8 includes a decent Undo feature, better drag and drop ability and right click ability. Oh, and if you replace your mail from the server and you get a new mail message, make sure you only get notified when the mail has arrived on your local replica (it's rather annoying otherwise, and users have no idea why they don't see any new mail when it says it does!

    Darryl

  1. 11  Vince Schuurman http://blog.vinceschuurman.com | 11/12/2005 6:29:16 AM

    @10 What do you mean by 'better drag and drop ability'?

    FYI:

    - Programmable right click is availlable in ND7

    - If the location is set correctly you shouldn't get a notification untill the mail has been replicated to local

  1. 12  ThePef http://www.ideasling.com | 11/12/2005 1:50:57 PM

    Finally some constructive ideas being shared for the interface. The first step is to admit you have a problem, then you set about solving the problem. Keep up the good work, BTW: I have not added any comments to the "I hate Notes" site since last April, people like Ben give it life, better to let it die if I were you guys.

  1. 13  GarryL  | 11/12/2005 3:20:09 PM

    @7, completely agree. I've made comments to this effect before.

    @9, Yeah great. But why oh why oh why has it taken so long???? Anybody??? I like Notes, its sill one of the most versatile software products on the market. But god, the UI really looks awful compared to Outlook. I am still flabbergasted that anybody in IBM hasn't realised up to now that if only the client had been sorted donkeys ages ago, Exchange would not be in the position it is in today.

  1. 14  Ben Poole http://www.benpoole.com | 11/12/2005 6:42:12 PM

    > I have not added any comments to the "I hate Notes"

    > site since last April, people like Ben give it life, better

    > to let it die if I were you guys.

    Amen to that "ThePef". Your "normal" weblog is far more entertaining than your anti-Notes site (the ihatenotes.com guy is much better, sorry).

    BTW, as a general point, people take your views much more seriously when you use a real name.

  1. 15  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net | 11/13/2005 5:31:33 AM

    Why are we comparing Notes to Outlook and AOL?

    Outlook and AOL are just email programs...

  1. 16  ThePef http://www.ideasling.com | 11/13/2005 6:37:55 AM

    Ben, not sure I understand your comment

    @14 Your "normal" weblog is far more entertaining than your anti-Notes site (the ihatenotes.com guy is much better, sorry).

    Specifically the "ihatenotes.com guy is much better"? I thought you disliked that guy.

  1. 17  ThePef http://www.ideasling.com | 11/13/2005 6:40:18 AM

    Ben Rose

    @15 Why are we comparing Notes to Outlook and AOL?

    From a usability standpoint that is where most of your user community interacts and deals with the application day in and day out. That and calendar are the most visible expressions of the Notes appplication, therefore the first to come under fire and comparison. The point being, the glaring UI deficiencies overshadow the good that is within the program, and prohibit users from exploring further.

    And AOL Mail is a terrible interface.

  1. 18  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net | 11/13/2005 3:27:27 PM

    @17 - My point was basically this:

    If Outlook actually had some functionality...just how usable would it be?

    I used to be able to service my own car, the UI under the bonnet was simple. A carb, some plugs/leads, a radiator and some brake fluid.

    Now it's got all these complicated ECU's, ABS, EBD, TCS, fuel injectors, ESP etc. There's wires everywhere, I don't understand anything and I need a bit of help driving it...

    But which was I glad to be in the day it crashed { Link }

  1. 19  Nathan T. Freeman  | 11/14/2005 2:08:04 AM

    "Programmable right click is availlable in ND7"

    I would hardly trumpet that as a feature of 7. The implementation of it is an absolute disaster, since you don't have the power to take anything OFF the right-click menu.

    I was very excited about this concept when Lotus announced it. Then I saw it, with Notes 7 Mail having something like 35 options in the right-click menu, it's not a context menu. It's a joke.

    And yes, I'm saying this on Ed's site so I can be sure and get my semi-annual "Notes has something screwed up" comment in at some place with public visibility. :-D

  1. 20  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net | 11/14/2005 7:03:43 AM

    I'm with you on this one Nathan...it's an awful bit of UI.

    Incidentally, I just noticed your initials for the first time...I'm sure it's a very old story.

  1. 21  Darryl Miles  | 11/14/2005 3:00:32 PM

    > @10 What do you mean by 'better drag and drop ability'?

    Start with something simple. Drag and email over to the Calender and see what happens. In Notes 7..not much. I would have expected it would create a calendar entry. Drag around some Calendar entries. There should be the ability to drag and change the time of Calendar entries without having a dialog box open. Again, this is a major stumbling bloc for users coming from Outlook to Notes.

    Again..better drag and drop capability.

    Darryl

  1. 22  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 11/14/2005 3:06:10 PM

    @21 - you can do both of these.

    Drag and drop an e-mail to the calendar icon on the bookmark bar, and you instantly create a calendar entry.

    Draag and change the time of a calendar entry can be done - in the one/two day calendar view.

  1. 23  Alan Lepofsky http://www.alanlepofsky.net | 11/14/2005 3:18:25 PM

    @21 - please see { Link } Now I do see you specifically mention "without having a dialog box". I guess this is one of those things that some like, some don't. I personally like have the confirmation of the date/time, but I can understand that not everyone does.

  1. 24  Bill  | 11/14/2005 3:49:49 PM

    I know this isn't the right forum for this ... but how about the way Notes converts seemingly harmless HTML mail to 100+ attachments and trying to change various Notes client settings/Domino settings just doesn't allow my airline to send me confirmations via HTML mail??

    As for the drag-n-dropability ... sure wish there was a way to use Windows 'shortcuts' in Notes mail - could cut down on using disk space, etc. if we could reference a file on a LAN share without using "file://" hotspots.

  1. 25  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 11/14/2005 3:58:57 PM

    @24 huh? I get airline confirmation e-mails (UA, NWA, and AA all recently) in straight HTML. Wonder what is configured incorrectly in your environment?

  1. 26  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net | 11/14/2005 5:10:36 PM

    @24 - Bill

    Your first point sounds like you're using an external SMTP (internet email) appliance that is converting your email away from "rich" HTML to safer attachments. If you were to use an Outlook client, for example, a bit of trick embedded HTML could call a virus or worse and destroy your internal network. It sounds like the appliance, or anti-virus is causing this behaviour.

    I see your second point, but part of the problem is that your files on still stored on a basic file share. If you were to use a Notes document library, or similar Domino store, you could not only email a document link to other email users; but also store document revisions, comments AND have full resilience from a backup server in a Domino cluster. When our Windows file server falls over, our users have no files...but our Notes users can access anything should our Domino server crash...even when they're offline through replication.

  1. 27  Rupert Clayton  | 11/15/2005 2:31:53 PM

    @27 - Ben Rose

    Sorry, I don't agree that UNC paths shouldn't automatically convert to links. Now, I wouldn't suggest that a company plan this as their approach to document management, but that's a different thing from supporting the option.

    Unwillingness to address real-world needs and practise has dogged the Notes feature set for too long (think of how long it took for roaming and folder unread counts to make the cut.)

    Similarly, Alan's right with @23. Just because it could be a problem to drag a meeting to another time doesn't mean every user needs to see the dialog each time round.

    How about being able to deploy both those capabilites through policies, another innovation that should have arrived five years earlier, and still not properly structured.

  1. 28  Arno http://arnosoftwaredev.blogspot.com/ | 12/19/2005 11:24:14 AM

    Uhm - sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring to the 5.0 client, which was released in 1999. You know, many large corporations always seem to skip a major release on their install base. I am sure new versions have improved on usability, and I also mentioned that. Still, my every-day working situation with the old client is quite frustrating.

  1. 29  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 12/19/2005 2:26:18 PM

    Seems like that would have been a useful disclosure... or, perhaps, a reason not to blog about Notes at all. It doesn't seem reasonable to blog about six+ year old software and complain without checking out the current version.

    Offer still stands to arrange a demo for you -- too bad you didn't include a valid e-mail address. Says something about how you want (or don't want) to stand behind your comments.