As I have mentioned a few times, with code drop 8 we lifted the non-disclosure veil from the Notes/Domino 8.5.1 beta. Many of the design partners and managed beta participants have taken the time to blog about the overall improvements, the updated Domino Designer in Eclipse, and Lotus Notes Traveler support for the Apple iPhone. I was particularly intrigued to see Charles Robinson's blog entry summarizing his experience with CD8:
So when I heard that supposedly one of the primary goals in 8.5.1 was to fix was was left undone in 8.5 and to finally make Domino Designer a usable development environment, my first reaction was look back at the long history of broken promises and broken software and be dismissive. I finally decided that after harping about this for the better part of a decade I had to see if they were really doing it or just giving more lip service. I requested to participate in the 8.5.1 managed beta. I had to know.I'll let you read the specifics of Charles' observations, but if you want to skip to the punch line, here it is:
I have been one of the harshest critics of R8 and I'm not a raving fan yet, but there is finally hope. I wrote off R8 as a lost release, one that was basically an entire beta cycle between 7 and 9. I never expected any R8 release to be usable. If you did the same you owe it to yourself to give 8.5.1 a try. It has issues and there is a lot left to be done, but is head and shoulders above any previous R8 release.While I can't say that I share the thought that 8 was a Vista-like placeholder between 7 and 9 -- and based on the fact that more than 60% of our customers have Notes/Domino 8 deployed, most of you didn't either -- I have acknowledged here and there that there was still some fit and finish work to do. The 8.5 FixPack was good and useful but came a month or two later than I had personally hoped. We know we need to iterate on these faster. Ultimately, the 8.5.1 release will incorporate that fixpack, plus many, many more bug fixes across the product line. While fixing bugs might appear to some as just fixing bugs, we actually measure the progression against all customer-reported SPRs, all high-weight SPRs, all regressions, and the entire known universe of issues with the product. While I can't go into specifics, the metrics I'm seeing on 8.5.1 show overall progress towards zero or virtual zero -- it is the main reason why this "maintenance release" is on a longer ship cycle. This is why Charles, and many of the other 8.5.1 beta testers, are reporting significant progress in terms of performance, improvements in stability, and overall polish and finish. We still have a few more weeks before this project is done, and from my executive level, I can tell you that the team is tremendously focused on finishing the job.
Link: Charles Robinson: My impressions of Lotus Notes and Domino 8.5.1 beta >
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Peter Wilson | 9/6/2009 7:21:29 PM
I look forward to the Workspace (look and feel and usefulness like say Windows Explorer) being brought into the 21st century too :-)
If only...if only IBM/Lotus had focused on the UI like many of us wanted by in R5 days. Oh well, water under the bridge.
Pete
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Ian Scott | 9/6/2009 8:46:54 PM
I had written a comment for the Code Poet but didn't post because I was too dumb to understand the 'choose an identity' part :-)
I'm not participating in the beta program so have no personal knowledge of 8.5.1 but I have to say that Fix Pack 1 for 8.5 dealt with our showstoppers for 7->8 upgrade and has made me optimistic that 8.5.1 is <i>the</i> R8 release that does the business.
I've never written off R8 as a 'lost release' but I think I see where Charles is coming from. The 'Hannover' project is/was a pretty vast and ambitious undertaking so I fully appreciate that inside IBM Notes R8 is not viewed as a 'placeholder' so I understand Ed's position ther. Nonetheless I believe when we are further up the line (R9, R10, R11....) we will look back and regard R8 as a transitionary release.
I did expect an R8 release to be useable but until 8.5 FP1 I was was starting to become doubtful those expectations were justified. Honestly, fixing that screen flicker (SPR# SCHI7QX8X6) has to have been one of the most important bug fixes in the history of software.
Charles notes that 8.5.1 is two years late but I have to say I do not think it is two years too late. It's an awkward one but had 8.0 not shipped when it did the Notes doomsayers may have had a field day. The doomsayers have not only been denied that opportunity but they've also had something visually attractive to look at and compare with the competition and they've also been able to absorb the fact that IBM has and continues to make a massive committment to Notes. All good.
We went from 5.0.x to 6.5 (ie. 6.0 wasn't 'ready' or at least not 'ready enough' for my employer) so, in a way, 7.0.x to 8.5.x is no different. If there was a placeholder it was 8.0.x but what matters, I think, is that we're going to have a usable R8 that delivers on the promises, is consistent with the roadmap, and bulwarks the notion that IBM is committed, and has been for some years, to the future of an amazing technology.
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Charles Robinson http://www.cubert.net | 9/7/2009 9:30:38 AM
Thanks for the shout out, Ed. I'm glad I can finally say something positive about R8. :-)
I agree that Notes 8.0.2 is good enough for the average worker. Domino has been mostly stable, other than a few regression bugs. Since developers are a very small portion of the customer base I can understand why some customers deployed R8. It has a lot of good things for a lot of people.
I am a developer, though, and I'm in a position where I can weigh my needs as heavily as I want in the equation. That's good for me, but not so good for Lotus. At least until 8.5.1. :-)
@1 - The new features are much, much less important to me than fixing the raft of stuff that has been broken through the years. I'd rather have features that work than a bunch of new broken things. I'm very glad to see IBM finally got that memo and is doing something about it.
@3 - The "choose an identity" thing is because I want to give commenters a chance to identify themselves. You can just select Anonymous if you don't want to.
I agree that 8.0 was an imperative, I just disagree with what was given priority. Namely, fit and finish. That's what bugged me the most, because I know the platform can deliver what I need. 8.0 was like putting Naugahyde seats in an Aston Martin because you can't wait for the leather to arrive from Italy.
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Mat Newman | 9/7/2009 5:04:07 PM
"Zero or Virtually Zero"?
Here is my list of features that are still in the "Basic" client (run nlnotes.exe from the Notes program path), but continue to be unavailable or have regressed in the "Standard" client as at 8.5.1 CD8.
● Direct entry into the calendar
● Scrolling within the Calendar (especially with a wheel-mouse)
● Ability to Categorise calendar entries, however no easy method of viewing/filtering these entries.
● Double-Click a date heading to Zoom to that day
● Visibility restrictions and difficult navigation while displaying the To-Do list in the Calendar Navigator
● The Navigation tool-bar does not have "Go Back" or "Go Forward" buttons
● Switch Windows Tabs with [Ctrl]+[Tab]
● Opening views/folders in a new window (Ability to compare/review the content of two folders/views within the same application easily)
● Select documents across folders/views by holding the [Ctrl] key down while switching
● Too many clicks to use the Copy-Into function
● More Bookmarks -> Create, requires restart of Notes client to activate
● Creating Email messages while a Browser window is active - [Ctrl]+[M] does not work
● Closing web-pages while a Browser window is active using the [Escape] key does not work
● Hiding the Notes window using the lock function ([F5] in basic [Ctrl]+[F5] in Eclipse)
● Going to the Address tool-bar while a Browser window is active - [Ctrl]+[L] does not work
● [ALT]+[B] Bookmark Short-Cuts not available ([Alt]+[W] still available)
● Forwarding open documents/web-pages as Memo's
Ed. It's frustrating doing upgrade classes and having to explain to competent Notes users that a feature is simply no longer there or harder to use. The look on users faces is normally consternation or bewilderment - "why would they do that?"
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Eoin Meaney http://www.Outspan.com.au | 9/7/2009 7:19:58 PM
Glad to know I'm not the only one who had doubts (Ed, I was one of the luddites who raised their hand when you asked who was still running 6.5 at your talk in Syndye the other week :) ).
I felt kind of reassured to hear you talk about the X000 SPRs that had been address rather than the typical 1500 (or whatever the figures were).
What I found amazing is I was prepared to install 8.5.1 on a real user's machine - and that's before it has even been released.
I'm also in two minds as to whether to pay homage to the smart people who managed to reduce the lanuch time of the client from somewhat glacial to pretty quick (by any standards) or to ask what on Earth was being loaded all along on 8.0 8.5...
Still, all in all I'm very impressed.
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Erik Brooks | 9/7/2009 9:44:23 PM
*cough*fixlistdatabase*cough*
I'm still uncovering a performance regression in 8.5.1, but it does seem to be shaping up to be the first 8.x release where the ship has finally finished turning, the rudders are recentered, the throttle is full, and the ship is past its own wake.
Like Charles, I am REALLY excited about where Notes 9 can be -- if IBM continues the momentum from all of this recent effort.
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Mike Robinson http://www.invcs.com | 9/10/2009 11:34:14 AM
I can't say that I've been using 8.5.1 long, and I *will* be posting in the beta forum things I see and suggestions, but just like Charles and a lot of other people, this is going a very very good release.
I KNOW based on the feel of 8.5.1 in terms of load/exit times, navigation through mail,calendar, sametime, etc., there have been intentional concentrated improvements in performance and system footprint. For the first time, I actually FORGOT this is an eclipse (java) based product. That's a *good* thing. Normally anything written in java for client side use, I start finding the nearest starbucks since there's going to be a lot of sluggishness.
I liked 8.5 with FP but am LOVING 8.5.1, you will have to pry it from my cold dead cybernetic fingers...
And a special BLESS you to the engineers that made designer usable again, and added custom class intellisense!
To think, 8.5.1 production will be even better than 8.5.1 beta?!? Wow, it's going to be a great Q4 after all.
I can't wait to see how it feels form a Mac POV.
You guys really need to know that this was big win, particulary in my world ;)
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Jérôme Deniau http://www.inform-france.com | 9/27/2009 4:18:34 PM
In one word: THE Notes release we were waiting for! R8 was just the beginning...
I've been using 8.5.1 for a good few months and have seen it improve every week. The fixes are very important, but it's also great to see new features - they may be fairly minor, but add up those features and they amount to a largely-improved client. Anyone dipping into the composite application editor will also find a lot to be happy about.