ConsortiumInfo: OOXML Payback Time as Global Standards Work in SC 34 "Grinds to a Halt"
October 17 2007
Unsurprising unintended consequences of mucking with the standards process...
SC 34 is one of the more important and active committees in JTC1, and has a constant stream of standards under active consideration and balloting. In anticipation of the OOXML vote, its membership surged -- with 23 new National Body members, and the number of P members spiking by 11. When almost all of the new members voted for adoption (most of those countries that were long term members voted against adoption, with comments), many felt that the standard setting process had been abused.Also covered on Slashdot.
But unfortunately, the damage has not stopped there: since the OOXML ballot closed on September 2, not a single ballot has received enough votes to count in this important committee. Why? Because the last minute arrivals to SC 34 are not bothering to vote. ...
The result is that a very important committee has, in the words of its Secretariat Manager in frequent pleas to the non-responsive members, "ground to a halt."
Link: ConsortiumInfo: OOXML Payback Time as Global Standards Work in SC 34 "Grinds to a Halt" > (Thanks, Kevin)
Post a Comment
- 2
Grant Lindsay | 10/17/2007 12:27:35 PM
I wish I knew more about this than I do. But, I'll comment anyway. :)
Let's say that Microsoft did abuse the system to get OOXML shoved down our throats, I still feel this current issue (review process grinding to a halt) is the fault of the, well, process.
Should there not be safeguards in place to prevent this? Cannot the authority who issued the new memberships revoke them for members who repeatedly refuse to participate? If the non-participating members are dropped, would not the committees again have quorum, peace and harmony?
If someone pushes me to the floor and walks away, that's his fault. If I stay there, that's mine.
C'mon, SC 34. Get up off the floor.
- 3
Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 10/17/2007 1:35:17 PM
The ISO bylaws don't allow the committee to just kick members off without cause. I believe there is a minimum participation requirement for in-person meetings for P members, but really, read the ISO bylaws yourself to find out.
- 4
kerr | 10/17/2007 1:46:06 PM
@2, The root cause of this problem is that ISO has operated on the assumption that people joining it wanted to participate in setting good international standards. It has no well defined way to deal with being gamed like it has been. It a big club where everyone up until now has played by the spirit of game. It just doesn't know what to do when someone picks up the ball and runs. There is nothing in the rule book that says that you can't, but it's just not cricket, if you'll excuse the mixed metaphor.
The only good thing that can come of this is that ISO have a good long look at it's rule book and try to prevent this short of shambles. But as ever the only winners will be the lawyers.
- 5
Ian Scott | 10/17/2007 3:02:42 PM
Jeez. I don't know much the mechanics, if I can call it that, of the ISO but I do know that without their work I'd probably have spent a huge amount of time at university converting from one unit of measurement to another in order to translate an equation from someone in one country so as to apply or insert it to an equation from someone in another country.
Although the UK, where I'm from, still uses a number of imperial measures in every day life, its scientists use SI units and as a result their work is accessible to scientists elsewhere.
I'm stating the screamingly obvious but there's a very real point to standards which transcends commercial motive and the world is a better place for them.
The phrasen "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Comes to mind. Yuck! Those new members and their bank roller and associates make me sick. It's subversive.
I earnestly hope something can be done about this - and it's got nothing to do with OOXML versus ODF.
- 6
Kevin Mort | 10/17/2007 3:15:28 PM
You're welcome Ed...
Reading more of this you see just how much of a mess this created, and how destructive the political motivations of a few can be destructive to an otherwise well intentioned process.
But, as mentioned @4, perhaps this could be a factor to drive change. Clearly this is needed.
- 7
NeilT | 10/18/2007 7:23:23 AM
Am I the only person who sees that the absolutely bloody minded attitude of "over my dead body will ooxml be granted a standard"; has brought this upon the standards setting body?
A small but very vocal minority in the standards setting community decided that MS would *never* get accreditation. Regardless of what their customers want.
As a result, MS has played the same power games.
Result? A mexican standoff with the standards body in the middle taking the impact.
Perhaps it would be better for these companies to take their fight to the marketplace and keep it out of the standards body and we would all be better off.
But as we all know, Microsoft normally wins in the marketplace and their competitors have to resort to the courts, local government or standards bodies to compete.
Pretty shoddy really!
- 8
Mike Brown | 10/18/2007 7:58:09 AM
@ NeilIT
Yes, you are.
There is no "bloody minded attitude" as you call it. Those that object to OOXML do so because the "standard" is crap. It is, in a pure technical sense, completely riddled with bugs and proprietary hooks that have no place in any kind of standard. Got that? If OOXML was actually any good - I mean intrinsically good - then it would have passed at ISO. The fact that it didn't, despite Microsoft's blatant ballot rigging, speaks volumes.
The market will do what the market does. Microsoft customers will do whatever they do. It's their money and their choice. The time is fast approaching, however, when such decision makers will be called upon to account for their choices. When asked "why did you spend so much of the company's money on THAT for all these years", I hope they've got a better answer than "well, everybody else was".
Microsoft "wins in the market place" for any number of reasons. Some of them illegal, according the EU and the US Department of Justice. But historically, they win because they always seem to have just the right product, at just the right price at just the right time.
Or I should say "won". Because that knack seems to have deserted them of late. Vista's a dog. Office seems to have run its course, despite praiseworthy attempts to raise the bar with the Ribbon. That's 90% of the company gone, right there. All they have left is vendor lock-in. Good night and good luck.
If it's any consolation, I'm thinking of buying an XBox 360, if indeed Microsoft has put its quality control problems behind them.
Cheers,
- Mike
- 9
Sean Jennings | 10/18/2007 8:08:11 AM
this seems to be a new instance of the old Microsoft strategy, "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"... :o(
- 10
NeilT | 10/18/2007 9:41:04 AM
@8
I spend a lot of time explaining to IT departments that if they have 2% of their desktops on the "standard" and 98% on something else, then their standard is not a standard, it is a potential standard should they choose to adopt it.
Interstingly I would never buy an XBox, iPod or PS3 because they are riddled with lock in and I don't believe in lock in or the "somewhat illegal" practises they carry on with in the name of.... well something anyway.
It's a funny world we all live in......
Once upon a time Bell was broken up for illegal activities, IBM was nearly destroyed for illegal activities; today it is Microsofts turn. In the future it will be Google.
There may come a day when Microsoft is standing on the ouside calling "foul". I wonder what the courts will think then? Will they give them the credence that they give IBM today?
- 11
Grant Lindsay | 10/18/2007 10:07:22 AM
@3: Thanks, Nathan. I agree. The problem exists with the ISO by-laws. Therefore, it is an ISO issue. Who else can fix the ISO by-laws to prevent this from happening again? Not I. I even doubt that I will ever read them. :)
@4: Right. The ISO got gamed and didn't see it coming or think that it would happen, or whatever. Now, they (and others) have learned. Now, they know the school yard has bullies. Now, they can do what it takes to protect themselves.
I'm not blaming them for what happened. I'm saying don't cry, learn from it, get stronger, be better, and keep doing good things.
Anything else is a bully's victory.
A disgrace, but as you say sadly not a surprise. One can only hope that a way out of this mess can be found soon...