Ed Brill

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1. 1  Ben Rose http://blog.jaffacake.net | 2/17/2005 10:06:59 AM

   Notes on Linux? We could do that easily in 6.5.2 with WINE, but I guess this is support/certified.

   A good announcement, but I'd already assumed there was a Workplace client for Linux so it's no real surprise I guess.

1. 2  Roberto Boccadoro  | 2/17/2005 12:15:43 PM

   @ 1 Ben, the surprise is the Notes plugin in the Linux client. This is not available today, and this will be "Notes on Linux".

   RoB

1. 3  Chris Whisonant  | 2/17/2005 12:41:19 PM

   @2 - I saw the "Notes on Linux" preview at Lotusphere. I was highly impressed.

   Any considerations for a Designer plugin for Workplace?

1. 4  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/17/2005 1:04:35 PM

   lol - like the song lyrics go, "Never is enough"

   { Link }

1. 5  Chris Whisonant  | 2/17/2005 3:28:27 PM

   Well... maybe they could pledge another million to getting the Designer plugin. lol

1. 6  Ben Rose http://blog.jaffacake.net | 2/17/2005 6:07:51 PM

   Is there a Mac workplace client? Is there going to be? Or is Linux just replacing MacOS as a non-designer client platform?

1. 7  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/17/2005 7:08:48 PM

   Mac architecture is intended to be the same as Linux -- There will be a Mac version of the Notes plug-in. However, the existing Lotus Notes client for Macintosh will be updated in the 7.0.x timeframe...as opposed to Linux which will debut in the WCT architecture.

1. 8  Justin Freeman http://blog.agileware.net | 2/17/2005 9:11:34 PM

   This is great news - Woo HOOO!!!!!!!!!!! :)

1. 9  Stu Mac  | 2/18/2005 3:13:41 AM

   Ed - this is good news.

   Re: Windoze vs Mac vs Linux (again)... Ed - do you see IBM's transfer of the PC busines to Lenovo having any impact on Lotus's long-term platform strategy? I'm just wondering if this will loosen IBM's enforced relationship with MS in such a way as it no longer has such an impact if IBM (hypothetically) chose only to support Linux for a given client say, or else might choose to roll out Linux/Mac clients before MS ones? I guess its unlikely to happen given marketshare right now, but it may send out a message that IBM/Lotus really is committed to an open client platform strategy, rather than just offering it as an alternative to the ubiquitous Windows...

   Stu

1. 10  Tim Leach  | 2/18/2005 4:48:34 AM

   Excellent news !

   It's the lead item on the BBC news technology page today :

   { Link }

1. 11  Wild Bill http://www.billbuchan.com/web.nsf/d6plinks/DOMM-68LF5A | 2/18/2005 8:37:52 AM

   Now. Talking about "never enough".

   Its fair to say that the effort in producing the plug-in is almost the same as producing the notes client. (Okay, I'm guessing).

   And I can imagine that its easier doing all that regression testing on a notes client as you have all the scripts and tools do do that already. (this is a huge amount of speculation, of course)

   So lets assume that a linux notes client will exist - even if only for internal use. (Again, speculation)

   How much customer interest would be required to turn that "internal-only" client into a non-supported external linux client, and how much more support would it take to make it a "supported" linux client. (Marketing + speculation)

   I know, I know. Always wanting more.

   But bear with me here. We all know that over 90% of Notes clients are on windows. And will be for some considerable time, lets face it. So lets all accept that the number of folks actually running this speculative linux client will be low for a number of years. You can see why costs-wise it cant really justify itself.

   However, just the fact that IBM *could* offer a linux alternative to its most popular software client (118m users, remember) is making an important political point. That is - you dont need windows to run IBM software.

   (Also - when does the number of linux desktops out there overtake the number of mac desktops ? )

   My 2 cents worth...

   ---* Bill

1. 12  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/18/2005 9:16:26 AM

   Bill, this is exactly why the plug-in will exist -- to take on linux desktops. But think of the test and support expense and cycle time -saved- by building it for the Workplace client technology. There are good reasons for this approach -- and the end result is exactly what you want.

1. 13  Stu Mac  | 2/18/2005 9:21:41 AM

   You raise some interesting points Bill...

   As a longstanding Unix (AIX and others) and Notes bigot, I have always struggled to argue my way out of discussions with my Linux-focussed colleagues as to why the client was never released, and whilst I can cope with "costs-wise it cant really justify itself", it never seemed like that was really the full and honest reason.

   There has always been the feeling (in this office anyway) that there was some deep-seated antipathy towards the Unix-based client within IBM. We know it has existed - I've got ex-Hursely-based-IBMers working for me that had Linux-based R5 Notes ports on their laptops, yet the tale was always that it would cost too much to develop and support - the latter may have been true, but the former certainly wasn't.

   Anyway, thats history, but whatever Ed says about "never enough", until we get true parity (at least at a IWCT level) between MS, Mac and Linux clients - thats from a user, admin and developer standpoint - then IBM will not be making the "important political point" that Bill mentions.

   As for Mac, as a recent convert, I wish IBM would invest even a tenth of that $100m on the Mac platform. It stomps all over both MS and Linux for usability, reliability, sexiness (maybe I'm going a bit far) and for exploiting leading edge technology. Give me the Workplace rich client, plus a full Notes client including Admin and Designer and I can finally dustbin my Thinkpad for good - hurrah!

   Stu

1. 14  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/18/2005 9:30:10 AM

   @13 - Again, to be 100% clear, what you saw at Hursley was IBMers running the Win32 Notes R5 client under WINE, which was the officially supported internal Linux "client for e-business" configuration. Building a native Linux UI for Notes was and would have been expensive -- think of all the different windowing systems on Linux today! With the Eclipse/Workplace client technology approach, there is a standard (SWT) to write to, so a lot of that UI work is already done.

1. 15  Stu Mac  | 2/18/2005 9:38:59 AM

   @14 - Ed, are you saying that no Notes code at all existed for the Linux platform between R4.6 and last year, when the Workplace Rich Client was first developed?

   If so, then all credit to the developers that got the Linux Notes-plugin working so quickly and with seemingly complete feature-parity with the Windows Notes-plugin. Its a very impressive effort ;-)

1. 16  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/18/2005 9:43:46 AM

   now that's more like it :)

   Yes, that's basically the score. Of course, the fact that Notes clients for UNIX did exist in the past meant they had a place to start from, but no, there was no client building going on for Linux (except maybe recreationally) prior to this effort.

1. 17  Chris Whisonant  | 2/18/2005 10:06:29 AM

   I think the "never enough" comment was directed at my request for a Designer plug-in for Linux, right?

1. 18  Ben Rose http://blog.jaffacake.net | 2/18/2005 10:20:34 AM

   Out of interest, how large in MB is this plug-in and how long is it expected to take to drag and drop it into the Workplace client over a standard 100Mbit/s LAN?

1. 19  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/18/2005 10:23:32 AM

   @17 - mainly yes...but it can apply to the Mac Designer request as well :)

1. 20  Stu Mac  | 2/18/2005 10:35:03 AM

   Sorry Ed, that reminds me of a shop assistant that once answered my request for an item with "No we don't stock that Sir, there isn't enough demand. But I do wish people would stop asking me for them...."

1. 21  Roberto Boccadoro  | 2/18/2005 11:26:42 AM

   @18 - in the Windows version of the Workplace client the Notes plugin is already there. I do not know how big is that, but there is no need to drag and drop anything into the client. I expect the behaviour to be the same in the Linux version.

1. 22  Nathan T. Freeman  | 2/19/2005 6:33:55 AM

   @15 Tons of Notes code existed for the Linux platform between 4.6 and today. It's called the server. While there's a significant amount of code out there for rendering the UI elements of the Notes client, the vast, vast majority of the complexity is in the backend, which was all ported to Linux long ago. Building the plug-in for the WCT is basically similar to building the HTTP rendering engine in the 4.x timeframe.

1. 23  Chris Whisonant  | 2/19/2005 12:26:04 PM

   @WCT? - So, in a future version of Domino, will I be able to push out the Workplace Client with Notes Plugin via Smart Upgrade?

1. 24  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/19/2005 12:53:03 PM

   Chris, it's been discussed. Too early to give definitive answers on features, but the interest in a capability like that is understood.

1. 25  Chris Whisonant  | 2/20/2005 12:18:37 PM

   @24 - Thanks Ed. That's one of the few things about the Workplace/Domino path that I was still confused on. In a couple of sessions it was stated that the Lotus 8 client will be the Workplace client as well.

1. 26  Dan Jaffe  | 2/25/2005 4:21:46 PM

   Ed -

   Will this plug-in give you the Notes GUI look 'n' feel?

   I assume you will be able to create, edit docs, and replicate NSF files from a Domino server, correct?

1. 27  Ed Brill www.edbrill.com | 2/26/2005 1:43:44 AM

   Yes and yes - though the plug-in will slightly modify the UI to conform to the Workplace client UI, most who have worked with this say it is an improvement.