Notes and Domino 8 public beta now available

March 10 2007

OK, the development team has helped me as a salesperson, exceeding customer expectations.  Instead of posting early next week, they decided to go live with Notes and Domino 8 beta 2 very late last night.  You can find all the cool stuff, including downloads, at www.ibm.com/lotus/getnd8now.  

This has been an incredible week as we've readied for this moment.  Every part of the team has played a role, and as always, it's been great to work with some awesome, passionate people.  Congratulations to all involved -- I can't list all the names that I'd like to, but I do want to single out Chris Baker and Jan Kenney from the development team for having lived this project day and night.  Their passion and dedication have made working on this release feel like Lotus of old, and that's a good thing.

We did a special call for partners and internal IBMers Thursday, and drew one of the biggest listening audiences ever for the live e-meeting.  Clearly, you all are excited as much as the core team is.

There's a lot to check out about the beta.  Developers are going to want to dig into the composite applications model.  Admins are going to be excited about provisioning.  End-users are going to be excited by a best-in-class user experience.  Architects are going to be interested in the Eclipse-based client architecture.  IT managers are going to want to evaluate the new productivity editors for their usefuless.  I encourage all to download the new Notes/Domino 8 reviewer's guide, and let its 100+ pages guide your tire-kicking.

Some bits that are not in the public beta include Connections/Activities and Quickr.  Neither has a public beta of their server available, so the plug-ins that integrate at the Notes client desktop haven't been included.  Managed beta/design partners will receive more detail about continuing their private testing of Activities in the coming days.

A couple of other things to note.  In certain areas, you might sense that the performance could use a bit of a boost.  As always with new beta Notes/Domino releases, performance tuning happens later.

OK, enough context.  This is the most exciting release of Notes and Domino in a long time, possibly ever.  This is a release that changes the definition of what Notes is and does -- taking it to the next level, defining the direction of the high performance workplace client.  And this isn't just about Notes -- the server and app dev pieces are just as important to evaluate and test as you consider the beta.

The development team and others will be monitoring the public beta feedback forum through the weekend and beyond to hear what you think.

Thank you for your ongoing interest and support.  I'm excited about the next few months of this journey.

See also: Jeff Eisen, DominoBlog.

Ed Brill Highland Park, IL USA Category:  Notes and Domino 8  Add/View Comments [108]

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  1. 1  Mike Brown  | 3/10/2007 7:43:16 AM

    Certain platform AWOL again.

    Cheers,

    - Mike

  1. 2  Pierre Lalonde http://kiwi.ca | 3/10/2007 7:45:35 AM

    Which beautiful way of walking up on this Saturday morning. You just filled my weekend.

  1. 3  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2007 7:46:22 AM

    @1 Mike, we announced at Lotusphere that the Mac client would be part of the 8.0.1 release.

  1. 4  Mike Brown  | 3/10/2007 7:46:51 AM

    Okay, just read Jeff Eisen's post on the feedback form. Mac users have to wait for the .01 release. Again.

    Still, better than no Mac version at all.

    Downloading Wintel version now...

    Cheers,

    - Mike

  1. 5  Pierre Lalonde http://kiwi.ca | 3/10/2007 7:47:13 AM

    Is there a planned Beta 2 version for MacOS ?

  1. 6  Craig  | 3/10/2007 8:23:06 AM

    Hey, this is good news.

    One thing -- I just picked up a tablet PC. Is there any kind of tablet PC support built into Notes?

  1. 7  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 3/10/2007 8:37:29 AM

    @5: no, there is no beta at all for the Mac. Because the first version for the Mac will be 8.0.1

  1. 8  Mika Heinonen http://siipi.com/mika | 3/10/2007 8:39:05 AM

    Awesome call, it looks much better to release something before it was supposed to be released! Notes and Domino 8 already running on production server.

  1. 9  diego ogniben  | 3/10/2007 8:42:57 AM

    Great news, a pity that it's almost impossible to download it right now :) Download speed is now at around 3KB/sec, i wonder how many are downloading it...

  1. 10  mark hughes  | 3/10/2007 8:51:55 AM

    Very very slow......

  1. 11  Villi Helgason  | 3/10/2007 8:59:39 AM

    Download is very slow. I am down to 1KB, and at this rate, it will take 51 hours to download. Perhaps someone can make a torrent available?

  1. 12  Mika Heinonen http://siipi.com/mika | 3/10/2007 9:02:27 AM

    @11 I thought of making a mirror download or torrent too, but I think IBM would not allow that :)

  1. 13  Frode  | 3/10/2007 9:06:27 AM

    Torrent would be great. I'm losing connection all the time now - at this rate the download will take many days.

  1. 14  mark hughes  | 3/10/2007 9:08:12 AM

    IBM needs more mirrors!!!! The wait is too much to bear

  1. 15  Martin Leyrer http://www.leyrer.priv.at/martin | 3/10/2007 9:09:51 AM

    I would second the setup of a torrent. The download right now is cumbersome.

  1. 16  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2007 9:13:03 AM

    I wish I could sanction a torrent download, but there's no way to put IBM's license agreement and download registration in front of it.

  1. 17  Paul Ryan http://www.ProcessStream.com | 3/10/2007 10:09:45 AM

    Ed or anyone else in a position to know,

    I was told a month ago by an IBMer in position to know that the Activities server WOULD be bundled in the open beta. It seems things have changed, and it has not been included. Ed, I see from your post that managed beta testers can still implement this piece however. So my question is whether this managed beta still open somehow? (Even if only to business partners, that would work for me!)

    Thanks!

  1. 18  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2007 10:33:22 AM

    @17 Paul, I don't believe anything has "changed", perhaps that IBMer wasn't quite in the know.

    The Connections team is managing beta participation for Activities beyond the current ND8 managed beta and design partners. You should contact your business partner representative to see if there is a way for you to participate.

  1. 19  Dave Armstrong http://www.reviewthenet.com/synnik/daveblog.nsf | 3/10/2007 10:38:01 AM

    Well, it took about 30 minutes of clicking 'retry' before the download kicked off, but I'm now getting about 58k/sec.

    Maybe it is because I'm only 10 miles from the data center where it is housed?

    (If so, maybe physical location still does mean something on the 'Net.)

  1. 20  Paul Ryan http://www.ProcessStream.com | 3/10/2007 10:51:22 AM

    @18, Ed, thanks for the response. I will try again with the business partner reps.

    Meanwhile, can you give us a hint on when the open beta might include Activities? Or when Activities might have its own open beta?

  1. 21  Senthil Kumar http://senthilkumars.blogspot.com/ | 3/10/2007 12:16:22 PM

    Thank you very much for all the people who worked for ND8. Its really a fantastic news to hear at 2:15 AM on Sunday Singapore

    time.

    Will be going to office just to download the beta as my notebook doesn't satisfy the technical requirements.

    Kudos to IBM Lotus :)

  1. 22  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2007 2:15:45 PM

    @20 Paul, I can't hint at the moment. Best advice is my prior response, and focus on all the good stuff that -is- in the beta 2 build.

  1. 23  Paul Ryan http://www.ProcessStream.com | 3/10/2007 2:46:32 PM

    @22 Ed, fear not, I AM aware of the other cool stuff (and plenty of it!), even if Activities wasn't included as I'd expected.

    Yes, I do have a special reason for wanting to focus on Activities (read, ISV reason). I will go back to the well on the business-partner angle.

  1. 24  Andrew Price http://www.healthspace.com | 3/10/2007 2:57:36 PM

    Congrats to the whole team Ed!!

  1. 25  GarryL http://Man, this download is frustrating | 3/10/2007 3:05:43 PM

    Damm,

    You wait months for it coming out, and when it does you can't download it!

    I'm on a 4mb leased line at work, and am currently downloading at 9870 bytes/sec., then it keeps disconnecting itself (connection refused). Estimated download time of 44 hours! Similar performance on my home line.

    Can't IBM put this on a few mirrors somewhere? Is this just down to the number of people wanting it, or is there a problem?

    I dread to think how bad its going to be on Monday. I think the full version will be out by the time I've downloaded this beta.

  1. 26  Christer Eklundh  | 3/10/2007 3:42:11 PM

    Hi Ed!

    I have just installed the beta and can I say WOW! It looks good and it`s feel good...

    I took me about 6 hours to download (just the Notes client), but if I has waited for a year or more for this, then a couple of hours more or less dosen´t bother me :-)

  1. 27  GarryL  | 3/10/2007 3:47:40 PM

    Oh!

    'Not found on server:

    notes8standard_w32_beta2_np.exe'

    Sods law certainly shows up at the most obvious times!

  1. 28  Andrew Kennel http://Still no beta love | 3/10/2007 3:56:39 PM

    Download continues to be overwhelmed, and is reporting that the file no longer exists.

    This has to be a good sign, right? If the server is overwhelmed now, on a weekend, with little to no announcement, we may bring down www.ibm.com on Monday.

  1. 29  René Winkelmeyer  | 3/10/2007 3:56:45 PM

    'Not found on server...' me too.

    Hope they took the files offline because they are setting up some more mirrors...

  1. 30  Mika Heinonen http://siipi.com/mika | 3/10/2007 4:01:32 PM

    Maybe they finally understood to utilize their IBM Blue Gene/L as a download server for new Notes releases!

  1. 31  GarryL  | 3/10/2007 4:02:10 PM

    I think its been sabotaged by the miffed Workplace teams!

    :)

  1. 32  Peter Smith  | 3/10/2007 4:05:57 PM

    @26 lucky you!

    got to 74% of the client after running it for hours and now "file not found", oh the agony.

  1. 33  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2007 4:43:55 PM

    I'm checking on the down low ... Err, download

  1. 34  Mike Brown  | 3/10/2007 5:14:42 PM

    @16 Ed, maybe you should license Blizzard's downloader for World of Warcraft!

    Cheers,

    - Mike

  1. 35  Mika Heinonen http://siipi.com/mika | 3/10/2007 5:32:18 PM

    @34 And while you're on it, why not also the 3D engine, so we could do 3D collaboration worlds in Notes, like Second Life or Home (PSP3).

  1. 36  Mike Brown  | 3/10/2007 5:56:32 PM

    .... and the HTTP download link says "service temporarily unavailable".

    Cheers,

    - Mike

  1. 37  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 3/10/2007 6:36:44 PM

    um, no one in their right mind who plays World of Warcraft uses their downloader ... it sucks. Most people I know use fileplanet or fileshack.

  1. 38  Mika Heinonen http://siipi.com/mika | 3/10/2007 7:00:22 PM

    @37 The WoW downloader works just fine, fileplanet has always a waiting queue, because they apparently try somehow artificially to reduce the download traffic. And if you pay $$$ you can get past the waiting queue; well I can understand that, if they purchase new servers for that money.

    The best download experience I have seen was from Microsoft, I don't know how they do it, but you can get a 200MB file in a few minutes from their servers. Maybe IBM should buy their services?

  1. 39  Bill  | 3/10/2007 7:05:53 PM

    Ed - How do we go about getting Notes client access to the ND8 beta forum?

    Looking forward to getting the server set up tonight if the download issues get fixed.

    Congrats to everyone on the team.

  1. 40  Nathan T. Freeman http://nathan.lotus911.com | 3/10/2007 7:09:31 PM

    Nothing will ever beat a proper torrent, but that would necessitate IBM allowing the torrent, then forcing registration & license agreement to get the torrent file, then enforcing a tracker to know who actually registered.

    These things can be done, as illustrated by 1000s of porn/music/software download sites. But I'm skeptical of IBM deciding to do them. It's hard to blame them, though... I'd wanna know as much as possible about the downloaders too.

    All that being said, I don't think the current issues are related to the download METHOD as much as they are to the fact that the site is simply down.

  1. 41  Pierre Lalonde  | 3/10/2007 7:09:49 PM

    Sorry me for what I'll say, but I think that if IBM decided to delay the PUBLIC beta of Notes 8 because they wanted to get things done right, they missed something in the process.

    Maybe people should have think of the availability (download) of these files. Hey guys, you are IBM and let me remind you that people expect more from you than the average Joe.

    We all know you worked hard to get this beta out, but there is no reason for this download not working.

  1. 42  Pierre Lalonde  | 3/10/2007 7:14:40 PM

    Do you want me to feel sorry? The next minute I've posted (41) I've tried the link again and now I'm able to download @ 528KB/sec.

    Ok I'm sorry.

    Ed, my apologies to those guys who fixed it. Thanks again.

  1. 43  Bill  | 3/10/2007 7:16:43 PM

    Great download is fixed. Coming down at 600+ KB/sec

  1. 44  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2007 7:20:43 PM

    You're right, it shouldn't be down. You're right, there are other ways it could be or could have been handled. All water under the bridge now, and really smart people are working on resolving it. Let's move on from the criticisms, please.

    @39 please use your full name and a valid e-mail address. The instructions for Notes client access to the forum are the same as any other developerworks Lotus forum, see { Link } .

  1. 45  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/10/2007 7:21:27 PM

    @42 apology accepted :-)

  1. 46  Andrew Kennel http://Whatever you did, it worked | 3/10/2007 7:24:51 PM

    Complete download in 6 minutes.

  1. 47  One Lotus Developer http://onelotusdeveloper.blogspot.com | 3/10/2007 7:34:04 PM

    Hi Ed,

    I am new to the public beta. One question, will that be a problem for me to blog my impression about the beta?

    Let me know if this is a problem. I am 5 minutes away from finishing the download...CAN'T WAIT!!!

  1. 48  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 3/10/2007 8:32:20 PM

    @47 - Ed can comment, but you will find many in the community are already blogging about it .. so I say let it rip. Just remember, if you want to make sure you comments are heard, post them (or at least a link) in the feedback forum. We can not expect IBM to read every blog ... they are busy as it is :-)

  1. 49  Bill Geimer  | 3/10/2007 10:23:52 PM

    Download (Via VPN access while WFH on the weekend) IBM Download Director (greatest thing since sliced bread) 8 connections, 623 to 698 Kb/sec. Both the c++ 3 client version and the full eclipse client came down in just about 5 minutes. IMMV I guess.

    Thank you and congratulations to the team.

  1. 50  Christer Eklundh  | 3/11/2007 12:54:22 AM

    I am downloadning the server now, 1079 KB/sec... dam that´s fast... :-)

    Congrast to all IBM:ers

  1. 51  Mike Brown  | 3/11/2007 3:37:26 AM

    1300 KB/sec for me, over ADSL2 in the land of the Koalas. I've never seen a download that fast anywhere before.

    Cheers,

    - Mike

  1. 52  Marc Leblanc  | 3/11/2007 7:16:16 AM

    Great to see your blog RSS feed on Ubuntu and Notes 8 :-)

    Thank you all IBMers for this great release

  1. 53  Peter Smith  | 3/11/2007 7:46:56 AM

    what a difference a day makes! Download screaming along, thanks to everyone who made t work :-)

  1. 54  Paul Mooney http://www.pmooney.net | 3/11/2007 7:54:38 AM

    Is it just me that is actually happy to see the download going slow - Everyone is excited and interested in the product! I love the idea that we are hammering the download sites.

    Ed - any chance on releasing statistics on how many download (or attempts) in the opening 24 hours?

  1. 55  Peter Smith  | 3/11/2007 8:06:33 AM

    @54 It wasn't that it slowed down - I agree it's gonna be popular and on Monday will probably sag under the strain, it was the "file not found on server" that caused the gnashing of teeth.

  1. 56  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/11/2007 9:02:11 AM

    @54 Paul, I need to get some more data, but the initial e-mail says, essentially: Biggest. Download day. Ever.

  1. 57  David Russell  | 3/11/2007 9:03:58 AM

    @54 - I agree with you, it shows incredible interest, and it also proves we don't have a life on weekends.

    I think the beta is great, and I was surprised at how fast it is (eclipse version) - I have a 2 yr old machine, AMD64 3800 with 1 GIG of RAM, and it was quite nippy. Very pleased :)

  1. 58  GarryL  | 3/11/2007 9:53:28 AM

    @55

    No, it was definately becuase it was slooooow. The file not found was later .

  1. 59  William Smith  | 3/11/2007 10:14:26 AM

    @57 - I was suprised too regarding the eclipse version performance on an older PC. I am currently testing the eclipse version on Windows Media Center Edition 2005 with an AMD 2500+ and 1 Gig of RAM. It seems just as responsive as the 7.0.2 client.

  1. 60  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/11/2007 11:28:47 AM

    @47 as this is a public beta, you're welcome to blog about it.

  1. 61  Charles Robinson http://cubert-codepoet.blogspot.com | 3/11/2007 11:31:41 AM

    I just finished downloading all the Windows binaries, plus the Intel Linux, at about 860KB/s. That's actually a little slow, on the average day I get between 2500 and 3000 KB/s from Passport Advantage.

    IBM shouldn't have sold off their PC business so quickly. I foresee a LOT of new computers being purchases in the next 6 to 24 months because of Notes 8. :-P

  1. 62  Jack Dausman http://www.leadershipbynumbers.com | 3/11/2007 1:18:31 PM

    Windows, iSeries, AIX, Linux and Solaris. Incredible. Congratulations for moving this out to the public beta, as I agree this is the most important release of Domino/Notes.

  1. 63  Paul Mooney http://www.pmooney.net | 3/11/2007 1:24:20 PM

    Already upgraded my server (and therefore my site) to this beta. So far, it is up and running fine, have not even had to reboot the OS. It took longer to do the backup before the upgrade! THis is also running on win2k server (therefore technically unsupported).

    I don't want to be the "ra ra" cheerleader this early in the public beta game.. but damn I'm impressed so far!

  1. 64  David Gursky  | 3/11/2007 1:40:56 PM

    I've seen a couple comments here about problems downloading the beta. FWIW, I'm trying wget now under Cygwin. If nothing else, it has a resume feature.

    I'll pass on how to install wget on a Windows box, but once you have it, it is easy enough to use to download the ND8 stuff.

    1 -- Open up the HTTP ND8 download page: https://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/iwm/web/reg/download.do?source=swerplotus-nd8beta3&lang=en_US&S_PKG=1win&cp=UTF-8&dlmethod=http

    2 -- Right click on link for the download you want and select "Copy Link to Clipboard"

    3 -- Open a command shell

    4 -- Type "wget " and then Click on Edit/Paste to put the URL in. Hit enter and away you go

  1. 65  David Gursky  | 3/11/2007 2:53:45 PM

    The download connection just reset and wget restarted at the drop point, no problem.

    G-d I love *nix!

  1. 66  Andrew Kennel http://Mail template seem sto be backward compatible | 3/11/2007 3:19:27 PM

    Fired it up on my Mac running 7.0.2. The new look is an improvement even running in the old client. Resizing some of the columns should clean it up even more. All the basic functions seem to work without problems.

    This is going to make the testing period much easier!

  1. 67  David Gursky  | 3/11/2007 3:42:27 PM

    OK, the IBM site just had a MAJOR hiccup and the old URL did not work.

    Re-logged in to IBM, got a new URL, did a wget -c with the new URL and it just picked up at the old point.

    My g-d I love *nix!

  1. 68  David Gursky  | 3/11/2007 3:47:45 PM

  1. 69  David Gursky  | 3/11/2007 7:51:46 PM

    The ND8 Beta page alludes to other software that needs to be installed to take advantage of ND8, but it just points to IBM's trial page, which has most everything.

    So what do you REALLY need?

  1. 70  Craig Wiseman  | 3/11/2007 8:36:30 PM

    @69 Looks to me like the information you seek is in the readme.

  1. 71  Craig Wiseman  | 3/11/2007 8:37:06 PM

    aka, "IBM Lotus Notes and Domino 8 Release Notes - Beta 2"

    readme_beta2.pdf (1MB)

  1. 72  syahid http://coolware.blogspot.com | 3/11/2007 11:08:25 PM

    hehehe

    the wait is over!

  1. 73  Silvia Garcia http://www.europesip.com | 3/12/2007 2:38:20 AM

    This look great !! I love the productivity tools !!!

    BTW, on the downloads page there is a "standard client" and there is a smaller package, not eclipse based (Seems to be a basic-little version of notes)....

    Althouth I though that eclipse based client was going to be slower (it suprised me, it is faster that expected), I would like to compare versus the basic C++ client ... Could some on explain me if I can run both of them on the same installation ?

  1. 74  Wild Bill http://www.billbuchan.com | 3/12/2007 5:00:56 AM

    The biggest moan so far seems to be the download servers. Which points to a rather interesting observation. Our esteemed colleages over at Microsoft would have us believe that Notes is a niche, dead product. The download servers caving half way through, and perhaps "the biggest download day" at IBM - over a WEEKEND - tends to disprove this.

    Yeah!

    Downloaded, installed a Linux server (on Fedora core 6 - 64 bit!) and the Windows client on Vista. Odd combinations, I know, but [after a few initial hiccups] all okay..

    Wow! Kudos to the team.

    ---* Bill

  1. 75  Keith Brooks http://kbmsg.blogspot.com | 3/12/2007 8:18:49 AM

    I downloaded sat night and it was quick and easy, installed sunday night, now using it for my emails, playing with the apps to see hwo they interact with excel etc.

  1. 76  Stuart McIntyre http://quickrblog.com | 3/12/2007 9:41:46 AM

    All linux and Windows downloads completed at >300KBps - great job with the download service guys...

    Both Windows and Linux installed without a hitch - Linux client looks awesome on SLED10, though am hoping that Ubuntu/Debian support will be forthcoming at release or soon afterwards.

    Congrats to the team on an awesome first public beta...

  1. 77  David Bell  | 3/12/2007 12:10:09 PM

    @73 - the c++ core is installed silently as a significant component of the full eclipse client. You can run it without the eclipse shell, by running nlnotes.exe. This is how the great backwards compatibility is achieved, because your applications are being run in the same code as they always have.

    This is a Notes 8 client that you will recognize as the Notes client we have loved for the last few years. There are improvements in this core code over Notes 7.

    It is designed to be used on workstations that do not yet meet requirements for the full Eclipse-based experience.

  1. 78  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/12/2007 12:42:36 PM

    @76 no plans to support Ubuntu or Debian at this time.

  1. 79  Silvia Garcia  | 3/12/2007 12:49:54 PM

    @77.. that is fantastic....

    On my old machine (it has only 2 years!!) it was slow to run the eclipse version.... I was able to, but after 30 minutes working i started to be impatient on some actions....

    I am aware that hardware requirements are not the same today than two years ago, and that VISTA it self requires a powerful machine, so this is not a requeriment exclusive to hannover...but the true is that it would take a long to have all the hardware and machines upgraded, so it is great to have the possibility to run the "tinny" version...

    I run the nlnotes and whow !!! Fast !!

    Really like to have the option to choose... thaks IBM.

  1. 80  David Bell  | 3/12/2007 1:43:09 PM

    Requirements for the full Eclipse experience are not excessive by today's standards, never mind Vista.

    If you're running XP today with a recent mail client, recent browser, office suite and maybe newsreader and running them together (plus the plethora of OS services and smaller utilities and tools like virus scan / firewall / etc.) then if you don't have 1GB RAM, your experience is probably pretty lousy - especially with XP's aggressive paging.

    A 1GB RAM requirement is not some huge leap.

  1. 81  Samuel deHuszar Allen  | 3/12/2007 3:50:53 PM

    Just a quick mention. Saying this at the beta site seemed to raise some 'pot-shot' hackles, so let me preface this with the statement "The new release looks 'effin sweet'. Awesome Job! Keep it coming!"

    With that out of the way Ubuntu is THE most widely used linux distro, and DB2 supports it. If IBM can commit some level of support to the Debian model, then 80% of the linux community will be able to use your products as all the various distros are based on RedHat's model, SuSE's model (which in itself is a minor set of variations from RedHat's model) and Debian.

    Ubuntu, Xandros, Linspire, Mepis, etc. all inherit their modus from Debian.

    Thus far, the client installs on Ubuntu, and is "functional", but a LOT doesn't work, nor do I expect it to until we can get enough eyes on the problem. But it should be known that there's a HUGE community that is being ignored by not participating in troubleshooting for Ubuntu/Debian, even if it is not explicitly supported.

    I hope you will not take that as a pot-shot or a crack. So far this release looks tremendous, and I can't wait to get it in regular use.

    p.s. thanks for all your attention to my questions at the Chicago Lotussphere comes to you. John Head was VERY helpful, as were several other IBM'ers scoping the scene. :)

  1. 82  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 3/12/2007 4:03:06 PM

    @81 the point on the discussion forum has been, Ubuntu isn't supported and won't be supported for 8.0. We didn't support it with 7.0.1. The two platforms planned for 8.0 are SLED and RHEL.

    You indicated there and here that Ubuntu is the largest client install. I am not sure I've seen the market data that supports that, esp. in the corporate market that IBM serves. But OK. You can certainly keep raising it and make us aware that it should be considered. And yes, it's reasonable in the meantime to ask community who are running it to get involved in trying to make it work better, just don't expect IBM to chime in.

    John is -always- helpful, especially at 4 PM on a Saturday via text message.

  1. 83  Slawomir Lipski  | 3/12/2007 4:13:12 PM

    @77 - thanks for a great tip!!

    I was just thinking how to install C++ version beside Expeditor.

    Although 'full' version is running fine on my notebooke, this is... just a rocket!!!

    And to all complaining slow download speed - you should enjoy your weekend, like I did:) - came this morning to the office, check great Ed's blog, log to IBM, downloaded all stuff in less then hour! from Poland! across the ocean!, through company connection where 200 other people where downloading something.

    So remember: don't check news at weekends! Spend it with your families!:)

  1. 84  Pedro Quaresma  | 3/13/2007 6:27:27 AM

    @82 Ed, I too think it would be important for IBM to support Notes 8 on Ubuntu/Debian, regardless of whether it is, or not, the most widely used Linux distro.

    Maybe the corporate market that IBM currently serves has a low % of Ubuntu/Debian users, but I believe reaching out to home users (where I'm pretty sure Ubuntu is the most popular distro) would be beneficial, if at least in the long run?

    Just my 2c :-)

  1. 85  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 3/13/2007 7:05:02 AM

    Re Ubuntu, I keep seeing comments like "the most widely used Linux distro", and that may well be true, I don't know. So I expect Ed (and others in IBM) would want to see some justification for these statements.

    Having said that, I don't think that stating Ubuntu is heavily used at home is going to help the cause. Lotus Notes—and IBM in general—are primarily focussed on corporate markets, not home users. I can't see how (or why) this would change.

  1. 86  Pedro Quaresma  | 3/13/2007 8:08:36 AM

    @85 Microsoft got people in their jobs to appreciate Outlook because these same people were using Outlook Express at home.

    Wouldn't it possibly be an advantage for Lotus if they do something similar, by reaching out to home users?

    Also, I understand there seems to be lots of college students, in IT, that use Linux (Ubuntu in particular). I would bet a good percentage of these know what "Outlook" is but not "Lotus Notes", and these students today will be the developers/admins of tomorrow. Exposing them to Notes would also probably be an advantage for Lotus.

    As a sidenote, I personally would like to give ND8 a try at home before installing it on a (WinXP) test box at work, and I use Ubuntu at home.

  1. 87  Simon Scullion http://simonscullion.com/ | 3/13/2007 8:24:51 AM

    @85 Ben, I admire your measured response, as you being one of the lucky Mac owners amoung us, you must be pretty miffed to have to go back into Windows if you want to play with the Beta!

    I will chip in and say that getting it working on Ubuntu would be great, but right now that is for purely selfish personal reasons as another Ubuntu home user, and not based on any business case as both you and Ed rightly point out!

    Me thinks it a little unfair to be questioning IBM's choice of supported platforms, particularly at such an early stage, and while the Mac user-base just has to sit tight and wait!

  1. 88  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 3/13/2007 9:01:22 AM

    @86: this has been tried before. Lotus did briefly dally with marketing a stripped-license version of the Notes client for home use (in the R5 timeframe). That never really took off though. Notes is groupware... I just don't see ow it has applicability to the general home user in the way that something like an email client does.

    @87: LOL. Well, I knew from an early stage that 8.0 wasn't going to be for Mac users—I've had a long time to get used to the fact. Besides, VMware on OS X does just fine :o)

  1. 89  Charles Robinson http://cubert-codepoet.blogspot.com | 3/13/2007 9:35:51 AM

    In a corporate environment SLED and RHEL are the two big fish. Or at least that's what I've seen in my limited exposure. I don't know anyone using Ubuntu on business desktops, but I only know four companies using Linux on desktops at all (IBM is one of them). At this point having a Linux client at all is more for marketing than marketplace demand. It's going to be a very long time before it reaches mainstream relevance.

  1. 90  Simon Scullion http://simonscullion.com/ | 3/13/2007 9:37:21 AM

    @87: Right, just trying to keep things balanced! ;o)

    @82: Ed, at the risk of hijacking the thread, how's this for coincidence, just spotted this over at Bob Sutor's blog:

    "The French Parliament looks to be the next big Ubuntu switcher according to reports."

    Link: { Link }

    While its not a business case all on its own, the progress of Ubuntu could be one to watch.

  1. 91  David Bell  | 3/13/2007 10:12:52 AM

    @89 - "At this point having a Linux client at all is more for marketing than marketplace demand. It's going to be a very long time before it reaches mainstream relevance."

    I believe this may be much closer than you think. In 3Q2006, Forrester reported that 20% of Linux desktop deployments were Windows displacements.

  1. 92  Stefan Krueger  | 3/13/2007 11:04:18 AM

    i looks great - it´s running fine, and it great for us in Gerany to provide the public beta few days before our big fair CeBIT will start :-)

  1. 93  Charles Robinson http://cubert-codepoet.blogspot.com | 3/13/2007 11:27:55 AM

    @91 - Even so, the number of Linux desktop deployments is still only a drop in the bucket. As more are deployed and Windows gets replaced people will clamor for Linux versions of their business software, and that's going to take a while. It's very much a chicken and egg scenario, where companies can't deploy Linux desktops until there is software, but software vendors aren't willing to invest in Linux versions until they see the demand.

    I applaud IBM for taking the initiative and doing it now so customers can check it off their Linux preparedness list.

  1. 94  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 3/13/2007 12:44:41 PM

    @82 Your welcome. Nice of Ed to pass on some of the hard questions to me huh :-)

    And what Ed is referring to is me and Nathan trying to get a hold of him because of the download issues this past Saturday ... I was at a bar in Chicago watching the Illini / Wisconsin game and might have been a bit tipsy :)

  1. 95  Irv Schor  | 3/13/2007 3:22:26 PM

    Anyone have any ideas on how Notes 8 Client is expected to fare in a Citrix environment now that 1 Gig of RAM is recommended per user. Is it going to be recommended that Citrix shops update the amount of RAM on the Citrix Farm servers in order to be able to handle their current capacity?

    Thanks,

    Irv

  1. 96  Charles Robinson http://cubert-codepoet.blogspot.com | 3/13/2007 4:42:57 PM

    @95 - There has been some discussion of this in the beta forum already. { Link } . Given the recommendation of 1GB per user I'm guessing you're going to have to increase RAM in the servers and possibly move to one of the higher end Windows servers that can handle more than 4GB RAM, if you're not using one already. I'm also interested in giving this a try on LTSP, to see how it fares in a Linux environment.

  1. 97  Joseph Hoetzl  | 3/13/2007 7:57:43 PM

    Wow, guess I never read the Windows 2000 Server support drop!?

    Arrgh, hate to upgrade the OS for this and give M$ more money...

    downloading at 140kbps...we shall see.

  1. 98  Samuel deHuszar Allen  | 3/14/2007 12:14:49 AM

    You can go to:

    distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

    www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT5816278551.html

    ...and many others. There are plenty of other evaluations of usage which say different, some because they are considering the "market-usage" and are not necessarily people-usage (if Ubuntu isn't for sale, then it all too often isn't considered part of the market). Of course, any poll before 2004 would be hard pressed to mention it as it was hardly on the map. And yes, some will be because their constituency simply isn't using Ubuntu and has no interest in doing so.

    The point is, not to be an Ubuntu fanboy and scream until IBM buckles, but to emphasize that in the Linux world there are two major package management systems, rpm and deb. There is of course the BSD-style 'emerge' packaging system, but rpm and deb take up most of the distribution pie.

    It would make sense to have a toe in each of those ponds as having an installer for debian-based distros alongside and installer for rpm-based distros means that you can address the vast majority of the market both free and commercial.

    Clearly you wouldn't want to support every Debian-based distro, but you will note that while you have to download SuSE rpm's, and RedHat rpm's, and Mandriva rpm's, you never really find anything but plain-jane deb files. One deb file will install to just about every debian based platform.

    The reason why Ubuntu is so crucial, is not because of its popularity but because of the resulting ramifications. Small businesses, --real-- small businesses with < 500 overall staff may still have issues being able to swallow the licensing and support costs of the SuSE and RedHat enterprise servers and desktop licenses. It also has the most comprehensive, enthusiastic and diligent documentation team and forums of ANY distro out there period! I still have nightmares trying to comb through Novell's support forums for anything useful. Even IBM's forums are more navigable (kidding... couldn't resist).

    There have been dozens of threads which were devoted or turned in to (case in point) a debate on how small a small business can actually be and still be considered a target sale. Many of IBM's most successful partners fit into the category that seems to fly under IBM's ~2000 employee small-business radar.

    Another interesting vector is the Edubuntu flavor of Ubuntu. It is the exact same distribution (you can switch back and forth from Ubuntu to Edubuntu willy-nilly, it's merely a matter of installing one or the other's desktop-specific package), but geared towards a school environment.

    I don't think IBM would consider grade-schoolers their intended market. That said, Microsoft has proven that early exposure is key to maintaining mindshare. And I would imagine that while the kids might be using Edubuntu and have no explicit interest in IBM's toolset themselves, the teachers and administrators might very well use Notes, Quickr and/or Portal to manage attendance, homework submission, class calendars, lesson plans, etc. While Edubuntu isn't sweeping the nation's schools like a brushfire, it has had a fair measure of success in the United States and internationally. More so than any other distro that I've heard of. And IBM has recently demonstrated it's willingness to use Open Source tools like OpenOffice.org and repackage it for it's own business advantage. I don't recall OpenOffice being a 'market-heavyweight' even though I think it to be a superior suite for my needs (still evaluating PT).

    Ed, I got a chuckle out of your comments at the Chicago LCTY about how IBM was tired of fighting it's customers over mail recall... perhaps that admission was a card best kept close to the vest. Customers can be a noisy bunch. :)

    Food for thought.

  1. 99  David Bell  | 3/14/2007 1:34:54 AM

    @98 - "-real-- small businesses with < 500 overall staff may still have issues being able to swallow the licensing and support costs of the SuSE and RedHat enterprise servers and desktop licenses."

    The SuSE desktop license is $50.

  1. 100  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 3/14/2007 10:27:36 AM

    @97 - Joseph the issue is that Windows 2000 is no longer supported by it's creator ... IBM has to support "supported" OS's or deal with the support ramifications. And that usually turns in to higher costs to us.

  1. 101  Samuel deHuszar Allen  | 3/14/2007 11:26:29 AM

    And last time I checked (to be fair it was a while ago) the server license is almost $1000. If you are a 500 user company that's $26000 to play.

    Then your Notes & Domino licenses go on top of that.

    It may be cheaper than a comparable Microsoft setup, but it's a lot more than free. If IBM was willing to support a configuration where all a customer had to pay for was Notes and Domino (or Express licenses in this case)...

    Otherwise, why include a free office suite. It's not like there's not a good competitive 'market' out there for those things... oh wait. :P

  1. 102  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net | 3/14/2007 11:29:45 AM

    It's Wednesday 14th and I just read this blog post...how my priorities have changed!

  1. 103  Rob Ingram http://www.dominoblog.com | 3/14/2007 1:20:45 PM

    @97 Microsoft end of support on Windows 2000 June 2005

    { Link }

    That's the key reason why Domino offers Linux and other choices so users dont get held hostage to one OS or its prices or support policies.

  1. 104  Samuel deHuszar Allen  | 3/14/2007 2:08:12 PM

    Except that I'm held hostage to RedHat and SuSE's enterprise prices/support policies. You see the conundrum. Not to say that SuSE or RedHat behave like Microsoft, I rather like those companies.

    The other reason why IBM offers Linux versions is because it's a competitive feature that Microsoft doesn't offer. Supporting at least one "free" distribution that is incredibly similar to 10 other distributions would widen the feature's advantages as IBM would be able to help super small companies use IBM's tools to organize their business, resulting in some of those businesses surviving, growing, and buying more licenses.

    To expand on a cliche, money doesn't grow on trees, but it can be planted as small seeds, nurtured and harvested after it's had a chance to grow.

    And that metaphor is as applicable both to these small business buying computers and software to run their business, as it to IBM providing fulfilling those needs.

    Just throwin' it out there.

  1. 105  Ben Poole http://benpoole.com | 3/14/2007 6:42:49 PM

    @102: Um... good for you. I suppose (?!?)

    @101: swings & roundabouts I think: the OS has a "cost" because it's the perferred distro for business, and business tends to want a degree of support n shrinkwrapping... so iBM support it too for their business software. A bit of a circle really, but I take your point.

  1. 106  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 3/14/2007 11:34:59 PM

    @104 Sam ... IBM can not test every version. They pick the versions that the majority of their customers will use. You happen to want a version that IBM has not picked. They are not going to change the support platform at 8.0.0 this point. If you want them to support it, you need to show them REAL numbers of customers who would ADD server or user licenses or MIGRATE away without having the linux distro support that you want. While posting comments on Ed's blog gets exposure, the only way to get real movement is to show IBM the numbers.

  1. 107  Samuel deHuszar Allen  | 3/15/2007 4:34:25 PM

    @106

    Fair enough. Just making a case. As I stated above, Ed said at the LCTY, IBM got tired of fighting requests for Mail Recall, for better or worse. I understand that IBM has every right to make their decisions that they think will be in there best interests.

    I am making a request for something that affects me personally.

    There are many other requests by lots of users for Ubuntu/Debian support. Large numbers of these requests tend to make the wheels turn. If I have been uncivil in making my case, then I super-apologize. I don't want to raise anyones hackles.

    IBM is currently looking for feedback on their new client. It's awesome. It's not entirely stable, even in supported OSes. I've just started testing in SuSE 10 and Windows XP. I'm seeing a lot of the same issues I see in Ubuntu (crashes loading pages/feeds with the embedded browser, etc.).

    I don't expect IBM to turn on a dime and do what I want, nor do I expect that they'll immediately start opening their arms to super-small businesses. Although I feel that the insistence of proving that IBM can make money doing something before they do it is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    And even more, their entire investment in Linux as a platform seems to be in contradiction with such ideas, as very few people were able to show that Linux and open-source software could provide be a profitable model until IBM released Eclipse, CloudScape, etc. into the wild, allowing developers and small-businesses to dive into it. Now it is successful beyond anyone's imagination. There were a lot of analysts who were holding their breath until the numbers came in before they endorsed supporting open-source models as a good idea.

    That said, I'm merely sharing my experiences thus far, and making requests for the future of the platform which I've paid my dollar for.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

  1. 108  John Head http://www.johndavidhead.com | 3/15/2007 9:57:33 PM

    I'm with ya Sam, just giving you a suggestion if you really want to see this happen. That is the best way to get something done with IBM ... show them the numbers.