Ed Brill

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1. 1  Charles Robinson http://cubert-codepoet.blogspot.com | 8/22/2006 4:28:52 PM

   I can't begin to imagine why anyone would be using a relatively recent version of Notes with an old mail template. Are people really upgrading the client and not their servers?

1. 2  Jeff Anderson  | 8/22/2006 5:00:57 PM

   No kidding re: Hertz. Hertz has the worst frequent renter program there is. We use Hertz just like IBM does. I was all excited when I saw I was going to start getting free upgrades. But to Hertz, an upgrade from a Taurus is a Lincoln Towncar. I disagree. Have you ever tried to steer a boat of a car like that in and out of some of the parking structures you have in downtown Chicago? The only time that truly was an upgrade was on my trip to IBM Top Gun in Leesburg, VA. Went out with the wife for a few days of sightseeing prior, only to get in at 11PM and seeing we were given a Lincoln Towncar with FL plates. I wasn't inclined to wait in line to exchange it. The next day, I was surprised at the light traffic after hearing horror stories of DC driving. Then I realized that everyone was giving us room because they thought we were a retired couple in our 80s driving up from Boca.

   My second point in my first ever blog comment is this: It is people like Ed who are going to keep the 3M privacy screen folks in business ;-).

1. 3  Brian Benz http://www.softwaresoapbox.com | 8/22/2006 5:55:02 PM

   re the security: Yvette recently flew from Montreal to Las Vegas. She was told to check her digital camera and cell phone by the person checking her bags, but later found out that this is incorrect, you can take them on. Still sorting out the message I guess, but what if her stuff was stolen (thankfully, it wasn't). She also bought water in the terminal and carried it on....

   Re Hertz: They used to be good, but so many people have club gold plus president circle now, that I see a shift to non-upgrades. I've had some interesting lateral upgrade options lately; A Ford Freestyle (not bad for a station wagon) and a totally stock Toyota SUV (no AC and not even electric Windows! Luckily it was temperate in San Jose....).

   I find that if you go in to the gold booth and ask, you get something better most of the time (most - not always), but that's if you have the inclination and the time to spend....usually takes an extra 15-30 minutes.

1. 4  Brian Benz http://www.softwaresoapbox.com | 8/22/2006 5:58:36 PM

   I also felt what you felt, having to walk past this { Link } to get to my ford freestyle.....

1. 5  Bill Geimer  | 8/22/2006 6:28:23 PM

   believe me, i live what you mean when you look in horror at the 6.5 client running with a 4.6 template.

   But on the other side of the coin, who else by IBM / Lotus would make such disparite members of the family so compatible.

   There are days, I bet, that some of us who use the product wish it was not quite so flexible and so backwards compatible. But there are probably just as many days that we live on because of it.

1. 6  Bruce Elgort http://www.TakingNotesPodcast.com | 8/22/2006 6:45:21 PM

   Ed,

   Are you sure it wasn't an M$ guy sitting next to you simply trying to screw with your head?

1. 7  Paul Robichaux http://www.robichaux.net/blog | 8/22/2006 7:23:02 PM

   @6: nah, all the MS guys are busy getting ready for their product launches.

1. 8  Gregg Eldred http://www.ns-tech.com/blog/geldred.nsf | 8/22/2006 8:46:09 PM

   Makes me wonder if the user didn't install the client himself. If not, you've apparently rolled out new clients but didn't upgrade the server? The hard work has been done. :-) (I know, that's a little unfair)

1. 9  Paul Baur  | 8/22/2006 11:00:39 PM

   Hmm. They sure have our number. I got the *same* thing when I flew into Denver to teach at IBM's Boulder campus. It's fun carving up the mountain roads with a Kia! Great memories, though. LOVE Boulder: the people, the city and IBM's campus there.

1. 10  Stein Sebak  | 8/23/2006 1:17:39 AM

   We just got rid of the last R3 mail template users a few months ago :-) We have some users that just couldn't let go of their categories, even if they saw that they where replaced by folders. We've have quite a few problems thought with converting cat. to folders if the user have many categories. Anyone else?

   Our servers have been upgraded all the time, and we've had users on R3, R4.6, R5 and R6.5 templates at the same time. We have a customized mail template.

1. 11  Matt White http://www.11tmr.com/ | 8/23/2006 2:36:11 AM

   Ed,

   I see a lot of similar people on my train every day. They are running either a 6.x or even 7 client and either a 4.6 or 5.x mail template. I'm sat there with my OpenNTF Mail Experience template and a few times have been asked why it looks so good. Always happy to promote OpenNTF I let them know all about it but their IT departments won't let them upgrade.

   I can't see the risk myself so maybe there needs to be a push to let the Domino admin teams in large corporates (it's always large companies which do this in my experience) the benefits of upgrading the mail template as well as the server software.

   Matt

1. 12  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net | 8/23/2006 6:05:05 AM

   @10 - Categories to folders...that takes me back! Only issues I really remember was when any of the categories had a "special" name, that pre-existed in the later template.

   @11 - It may be easier for these people to understand that the stock IBM template looks at good at a glance, they're just not using it. It's not unusual for companies not to want to use a 3rd party template with limited support.

1. 13  Wild Bill Buchan http://www.billbuchan.com | 8/23/2006 7:02:07 AM

   Interesting. I know of a lot of companies who have customised mail templates, and are unwilling to move on as it'll cost them bucks to get a developer back in again. Sucks.

   In terms of OpenNtf experience, I think Bruce mentioned that there are some companies out there offering support.. Wonder if he can point us at someone who offers it for the mail template.. ?

   ---* Bill

1. 14  Andy Stewart  | 8/23/2006 7:14:31 AM

   How about this for a confguration:

   Windows 2000 PC running OS/2 under Microsoft Virtual PC. Notes 6.5.4 client installed under Windows 2000. Notes 4.5.7 client installed under OS/2 as no higher version for OS/2. Both clients point at the same mail file and therefore the mail template has to remain at 4.5.7 to allow the OS/2 version of Notes to work correctly.

1. 15  Jackie Horowitz  | 8/23/2006 7:38:56 AM

   I heard this morning that an AirTran flight from Atlanta to NYC was emergency landed in Charlotte because a passenger had a bottle of water that did not come from the airline. So even if you can get past the security check points, seems the airlines themselves are a bit jumpy. I'm travelling AirTran in a week and a half and that story convinced me that I'm not going to try bringing on my usual bottle of Dr. Pepper :(.

   In terms of the mail template, when I got to my company just about two years ago, the entire company was still on 5. I had one application I developed that needed some capabilities in 6 so it required a server upgrade and upgrade of the users' clients that were accessing that one application. But for some reason, even though I requested for them to get upgraded and some had their mail templates upgraded, many did not. And the rest of the company is still using 5!

1. 16  Mark  | 8/23/2006 8:11:43 AM

   load convert mail\ * dwa7.ntf is a beautiful thing

1. 17  Mike Lazar  | 8/23/2006 8:48:39 AM

   Let the Hertz bashing begin! They are the worst. Usually higher prices, the fleet is awful, and the service is terrible. I cannot think of a time where I got a car I actually thought was mediocre. I've gotten the wrong car 3x in the past year (car in stall/on invoice not the one I was told to get) and I got a Subaru with no working brake lights and an electrical short. We didn't notice that until we were coming back from dinner. Not a good thing.

   As for Duty Free...I read the other day that they struck an agreement. You can buy duty free as long as you have the receipt and the goods are delivered onboard by the duty free person. Since this is how the vast majority do it anyway, there wasn't much to alter in the way of procedures. Duty Free has said it doesn't plan on getting into the water business, though.

1. 18  Wayne Weinheimer  | 8/23/2006 8:52:08 AM

   Hi Ed,

   Did you ask him what company he worked for? Did you introduce yourself and tell him that you (IBM) can help?

   Wayne

1. 19  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 8/23/2006 8:57:31 AM

   @18 that would be logical, but as #2 kind of guessed, the guy noticed me look at his computer and kinda folded the screen down. Instinct told me it probably wouldn't have been a useful conversation. You get a lot of self-important people in first class ... er .... (mine was by upgrade, really!)

1. 20  Christopher Byrne http://www.controlscaddy.com/ | 8/23/2006 9:41:40 AM

   @7 Paul - Does that statement not assume that the products will be ready on time?:-)

1. 21  Alex  | 8/23/2006 10:08:16 AM

   WRT to the mail templates. At my new company there are a few R5 mail templates. I am working on upgrading them.

   A real help to this process, is that all the mail files are in the database catalog. There is a view that sorts by template name, we can pick out those user who are still on older template.

1. 22  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net | 8/23/2006 10:37:50 AM

   I have to ask, what's "35ozs"?

1. 23  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net | 8/23/2006 10:40:43 AM

   @21 - The admin client shows the template name too and you can sort by that column.

1. 24  Ed Brill http://www.edbrill.com | 8/23/2006 10:41:49 AM

   @22 350z: { Link }

1. 25  Alex  | 8/23/2006 10:52:12 AM

   @23 Yes, but unfortunately if you have to go from one another, depending on how many server are in use this can take time.

1. 26  Todd Carpenter  | 8/23/2006 11:07:17 AM

   @15 Jackie - AirTran was ValueJet, which as we know didn't do such a hot job before with restricted materials on-board. Are you going to Lotusphere? I read your message about the SFLA user group in Ed's other thread.

   About Hertz, I joined the Gold club 2 years ago figuring it would be a benefit, so far my name is on the list about 50% of the time when I arrive at the airport. The second to last car I drove rebooted on me whenever I hit a bump. I mean everything but the engine would stop and reinitate. Perhaps MS had something to do with the Ford 500's OS? The last rental was for a high end SUV because I had 6 people with me from our overseas units, it got a flat the first day we drove out, not Hertz fault I know, but they asked me to drive back to replace the vehicle with a supposed same class SUV. When I got to the stall, it was not the same class and when I argued it about it at billing time, they were less than accommodating. Has anyone found another company out there will better quality and customer service?

   As for Notes, finally I have convinced all the units to adhere to a zero-mail-template-modification pact going forward, although we are still moving from R5 to 6.5x in many countries.

1. 27  Mike Lazar  | 8/23/2006 11:29:11 AM

   @26 -- ANYONE is better than Hertz. I've gone through Thrifty a few times, and the cars were fine, and prices were at least $10/day less than Hertz. The same goes for Budget and Avis. If Hertz weren't the corporate mandate for me, I'd never go near them.

1. 28  Ben Rose http://www.jaffacake.net | 8/23/2006 11:53:02 AM

   @24 - Ahhh...it's a font/case issue! I know that the 350Z is, I just read 35ozs, like it was a load of 1 litre bottles on the forecourt ;O)

   @26 Zero modification? Good work. I recently tried to roll-out a template that wouldn't use the openNTF modifications. It didn't get past 1st level sign-off.

1. 29  Mike "5 Things Wrong with SharePoint" Drips http://forevervoyaging.blogspot.com/ | 8/23/2006 12:26:20 PM

   1. I like Alamo/Enterprise (same company) because they are often overbooked, run out of the type of car you reserved, and then upgrade you (assuming they haven't run out of all their cars). I recently booked a full size car, and ended up having the option of an SUV (wife said no it would burn too much gas), various luxury/sports cars (not enough room for the luggage of two females) or a mini van. I liked driving the minivan. Cough.

   2. A mismatch between Notes server and client versions? Have you seen how small a salary some IT departments pay their staff? There's more staff than talent out there, believe me! Then again, attempting to get funding for an upgrade if you have brain dead management can also be a challenge.

1. 30  Brian Vincent  | 8/23/2006 1:38:55 PM

   I couldn’t help but notice your comments on the person sitting near you with OLD Notes. I recently changed jobs to large global finance firm and in the process been forced from Notes 7 to Notes 6. I cannot tell you what a painful transition it has been.

   Notes 6 has caching issues everywhere that have been mostly corrected in 6.5 and 7. I crash my 6 client about 3 times a day and see odd behaviors constantly, its very fragile compared 6.5 and 7.

   Your comment about IT being the cause of old Notes lingering isn’t entirely on base. Here obstinate powers on the technology steering committee (executives from other departments) who have stalled an IT plan to go to R7 and have forced an evaluation of Outlook/Exchange. There are thousands of Notes applications here and any move to MS would be catastrophically disruptive and expensive. Long story short this is likely to stay a Notes shop, but due to the FUD created by non IT executives it’s likely to be 2 versions behind for years. This sort of proves any collaboration product needs to be sold not just to its faithful or to IT, but to executives of all disciplines.

   I miss Notes 7. Worse yet as long as I am working here I shouldn’t even be thinking “Hanover” as I wont be seeing that on my desktop in this decade.

   The things we do to make a bigger paycheck.

1. 31  Gwen Jenkins  | 8/23/2006 3:03:23 PM

   My company has 6.5x on the servers, with a mixture of R5.x and 6.5x clients (clients upgraded on an as-needed basis. Before we migrated to Exchange :( I was still using R5 mail. Upgrading the mail template is not a trivial task in large organizations where most employees are uncomfortable with new technology. Training has to be designed and arranged, even if the changes seem intuitive to us computer types. Something as simple as changing a color can confuse people. And then there's all the telecommuters who are using their own computers at home and don't have the hardware/skills to perform an upgrade themselves.

   On top of that, even the tech-savvy workers aren't happy if a template change moves items on a page around. They don't want to have to think about how they do what they're doing. (And I must say, still getting used to the change to Outlook, I know how they feel.)

1. 32  Charles Robinson http://cubert-codepoet.blogspot.com | 8/23/2006 3:25:59 PM

   @29 - I'm acutely aware of how little some IT people get paid, I'm one of them. Even so, for most organizations using Notes the cost of client licensing is exponentially greater than server licenses. I've never known anyone who keeps the clients up to date but lets servers lag behind; if anything it's the other way around. It just seems strange all the way around.

1. 33  Wild Bill Buchan http://www.billbuchan.com | 8/23/2006 4:24:31 PM

   @14 - *cough* - Andy. I suspect I know this configuration well..

   Dont worry - it didnt make *worst practices*....

   :-)

   ---* Bill

1. 34  Darren http://www.dadams.co.uk | 8/23/2006 6:39:33 PM

   @7 (bit late to the party, sorry) - what are Microsoft launching?

1. 35  David Bell  | 8/23/2006 7:52:16 PM

   @31 - "They don't want to have to think about how they do what they're doing."

   Firstly, I realize you are the commentator here, so not directed at you personally.

   I am so tired of people looking for excuses not to take responsibility for what they do in their daily lives.

   How do these people get through life ?

   Do they ever change car ? (hmmm, looking at the standard of driving, I guess they really aren't thinking about what they're doing)

   Do they never move house ?

   Do they never change jobs ?

   Do they never change cellphones ?

   Do they never visit a new mall ?

   Do they never go somewhere different on vacation ?

   The list is endless of changes in life that require people to take notice of what is going on and THINK for themselves.

   Why should the tools they use in their job be any different ?

   Where would we be if improvements were never adopted ?

   Would these same people like a doctor to use 70's/80's drugs or surgical techniques because it relieved said doctor of having to think about the treatment they were administering because it hadn't changed in so long ? I don't think so.

   @34 - you've had how many years to get to this (MS launch) party ? tut, tut ;)

1. 36  Darren http://www.dadams.co.uk | 8/24/2006 2:54:35 AM

   @31 - what was your company's reason for moving to Exchange? I presume there was a really good business reason that would compensate for the time and money spent... and I know from your reaction that it wasn't your decision.

1. 37  David Vasta http://david.davidandkelly.com | 8/24/2006 9:56:04 AM

   We loved having you. It was a great event. Thanks for coming.

   Whats wrong with a KIA? I drive on only because I travel 63 miles one way to work, but they are not so bad.....i gues. At least that is what my wife tells me as she gets into here Volvo S80......I think I have been dupped.

   -David